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Consensus on crime will allow city council to make progress

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Consensus on crime will allow city council to make progress





Sunday, August 30, 2009

Over the course of Monday's four-hour City Council meeting, two views of Greenville's crime problem emerged from members.

Council member Calvin Mercer, among others, strongly expressed his desire to see progress made on improving public safety in the downtown district in response to recent violence there. Council members Rose Glover and Max Ray Joyner adamantly expressed their belief that a broader focus should be on a citywide crime problem.

Both are correct, but the city will struggle to make progress if members cannot come to a consensus on their approach. With citizens eager for action, that must be the council's first and most important step in the coming days.

A small fraction of City Council meetings draw large crowds to City Hall. Far fewer see more than two dozen speakers for a public hearing. But those were just two of the many notable items at Monday's council meeting, which featured some of the most contentious debate in recent years.

That passion is important, since the public expects action following the June 30 deaths of two young men in a drive-by shooting as they stood on a Fifth Street sidewalk. Citizens' anger and outrage fueled calls for strong and decisive measures from city leaders, who sought to use Monday's meeting to hear public opinion and discuss strategy.

Yet, it seemed evident from the outset that members are not on the same page about crime.

Glover, who serves some of the city's most persistently troubled neighborhoods in District 2, called for expanding crime prevention efforts in west Greenville and north of the Tar River. She expressed her concern that action to improve downtown would come at the expense of those areas.

Joyner repeatedly cited the need to work with business owners to develop a plan for fighting crime. The District 5 representative opposed taking action on any proposal before hearing from local business, and accused his colleagues of having a clandestine agenda in their drive to act.

Joyner's repeated accusations drew a strong rebuke from Mayor Pat Dunn and stern disapproval from Mercer, who urged the council to advance four ideas from a list of possible actions compiled by city staff in recent weeks.

The downtown situation earned the devoted focus of the District 4 representative and he seemed dismissive of those urging a broader focus on Monday.

The disagreement obscured the fact that the council needs to do all of those things. It needs a plan to improve public safety downtown and reach agreement on the city's nightlife in that district. It must do so in a way that protects business interests, but ensures the financial burden of law enforcement is distributed equitably.

But it must also look at the larger crime issue, particularly the need to invest resources in west Greenville and other locations that struggle to combat violence.

Even modest initiatives, like Glover's desire to see new lighting installed along dangerous streets, could have an immediate impact and should be expedited.

Crime and public safety will remain the city's top issue until demonstrable progress can be made. But that will only happen when council members can reach a workable consensus on the goals that will provide the foundation to act.

Brian Colligan is the editorial page editor of The Daily Reflector. Contact him at 329-9507 or bcolligan@coxnc.com.

Your comments

Disgusted citizen

10/14/2009 10:18:18 PM

I agree with Terry. Too much talk and ordinances by city management. Time to take back the streets and patrol the areas in the neighborhoods. Amazing how a 60 year old had the sense to get the license and description to have him arrested for numerous crimes in the area but nothing by the police. Quit sitting on Arlington and Elm to catch drivers 5 miles over the limit, and patrol where the True crime is happening. Totally disgusted as a citizen of 37 years in Gville.

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JACK

08/31/2009 12:49:05 PM

therefore they are already in the 76,000
and the city staff is wrong and the crime rate ids high as the justice department, the state of NC , the forbes mag and the FBI says it is...
Gee, we have a bunch of narrow minded people

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THE CENSUS BUREAU

08/31/2009 12:47:00 PM

They should also be counted at their place of residence (their apartment), not their parents home. A rule of thumb to follow concerning residence rules is that people should be counted at their usual place of residence, where they are living or staying as of April 1st, 2010. Since school will still be in session on that date, students should be counted at their place of residence on that date. This also applies to students who live at school.

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G-vegas Population

08/31/2009 11:53:06 AM

There are only around 5,000 ECU students who live in the dorms. The majority of the rest live in rental housing around Greenville. Therefore, the majority are counted in the census.

Rocky Mount and Greenville have always been roughly close in terms of population. ECU has increased their enrollment by 10,000 in the past ten years. Henceforth, that is why Greenville population has edged ahead of Rocky Mount in recent years!

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idea

08/31/2009 11:43:00 AM

Crime would most deffently go down if Greenville would stop building cheap housing that almost always turns section 8 within 5 years. Why would your trouble makers not come here? Its one of the cheapest places to find a getto appt in the East and still be in a city area. Greenville needs to take their city back!!

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to Apples to Oranges

08/31/2009 10:36:42 AM

If the 2006 data is bad, 2009 data is worst
Greenville you have a crime problem
What do they say to Alcoholics; first you have to admit it before you can solve it
You all are in denial..
Apple you are in denial...
Greenville should be doing much, much better than it is, partly because you do not admit you have a crime problem- have another beer

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Apples to Oranges

08/31/2009 10:15:18 AM

None of you have any points. One person is trying to compare 06 data crime to 08 data crime. Another is trying to compare population estimates done by the City to the 10 year census. The only a small % of ECU students are counted in population estimates. Remember, these are estimates based on land use, school enrollments, tax records, and etc. If you look at land use alone, Greenville nearly triples Rocky Mount and Rocky Mount has about 58,000 pop.

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review web site

08/31/2009 07:38:04 AM

http://greenvillenc.areaconnect.com/crime1.htm

notice red x's

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to pitt county

08/31/2009 07:04:56 AM

here we go again.we do not include the students in the crime statistics then if what you say is true. you cannot have it both ways..The crime in Greenville is very high look at the DOJ statistics and Forbes magazines rating of Greenville at 163 worst
of 200 cities of comparable population
Is everybody wrong except you???
ASK the people if Greenville has a crime problem. With the exception of City staff the answer is YES. The people, the DOJ and Forbes magazine are all wrong???

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Pitt County

08/31/2009 06:24:47 AM

Here we go again. For the final time, ECU students are not included in the county's nor the City's population estimates between census years. There are more than 47,000 people that live in Greenville. There are about 76,000 in Greenville plus 27,000 ECU students. During the 2010 census, students that live in Greenville full time will be counted. The population of Greenville will be about 95 to 105,000.

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to city staff2

08/31/2009 04:27:27 AM

If what you say is true and I think there are more permenants than you think
you then cannot have it both ways
include in the stats for crime and call them temporary for census
I do not recall seeing many students charged in crime related instances
hold ups killings etc

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to city staff

08/31/2009 04:15:58 AM

yes, only 47,000

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To "Citizens Participation"

08/30/2009 10:51:43 PM

I am a citizen and spoke at this meeting. Were you not paying attention?

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City Staff

08/30/2009 08:17:52 PM

The census is taken every 10 years, the next one is in 2010. Our 07 and 08 75,000 estimates done by the City does not include ECU students. Those estimates are based on tax records, school enrollments, and etc... There may be a few ECU students included; however, a majority are not included in the count because they are not considered "full time residents." Do you really believe that only 47,000 people live in Greenville outside of the ECU pop?

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rob

08/30/2009 07:47:14 PM

Ray-
Instead of destroying more of the Earth by making more parking lots (which we all pay for by increased hospital and retail costs) start charging for them. Then use those funds to increase alternative choices of transportation. If hospital people started biking to work, they'd get healthier in the process and set a good example. Just look at Denmark as a great example. More biking and walking build stronger community relations and results in lower crime. It is the wave of the future!

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to city staff

08/30/2009 06:39:51 PM

ask the census people
I work for the census
they are included!!!!

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Ray

08/30/2009 06:04:02 PM

I have the perfect solution...the hospital and university need more parking...empty out West Greenville and pave it over as parking lots...end of problem.

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City Staff

08/30/2009 05:28:42 PM

ECU students are not included in population estimates.

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nope

08/30/2009 04:48:06 PM

The statistics quoted by Boss Ex Police
are incorrect as the students are already in the greenville population and from http://www.reflector.com/multimedia/archive/00213/2008_Uniform_Crime__213259a.pdf
pages 4 and 5 of the North Carolina Department of Justice State Bureau of Investigation report
I will give you Fayetteville if you want to lower your standards of Greenville to an army town- knock yourself out

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WTF

08/30/2009 04:22:35 PM

The NC criminal stats data for 2008 supports Boss Ex Police's claims.

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Boss Ex Police

08/30/2009 04:17:47 PM

Here are your stats for you:
Greenville total crimes = 5591, pop 76,000, pop with ECU students = 102,000
Fayetteville total crimes = 13,939, pop 101,000
Wilmington total crimes = 6717, pop 90,000
Rocky Mount total crimes = 5475, pop 61,000

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statistics

08/30/2009 04:10:32 PM

Per 100,000 population for eastern north carolina
Greenville - 6027 crimes/100,000
Wilmington - 5171 crimes/100,000
Rocky Mount- 5363 crimes/100,000

The city council and police are not doing their job in greenville. average for NC is 4500/100,000 and Greenville is a long way below average

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to Boss Ex Police

08/30/2009 03:56:07 PM

I have no idea where you are getting your statistics from but the three cities you mention have less crime per 100,000 people than Greenville does
The council and the police are NOT doing their job

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Boss Ex Police

08/30/2009 03:44:31 PM

Rocky Mount, Wilmington, and Fayetteville are the little Detroits of the eastern part of this state. All three have a higher crime rate than Greenville. The criminal justice system is too light on those that commit crimes. The GPD are doing their job, arrests are up but the corrections systems is where the problem is, not the council or police.

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Former Greenville Resident.

08/30/2009 03:44:30 PM

It's going to take an effort on the part of the city government, including but not limited to the police, the business community, and the citizens in general. Crime can be reduced, but not eliminated completely. Only the Lord can totally eliminate it. But other cities have cut down on crime rates and Greenville can too.

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to ken

08/30/2009 01:32:28 PM

absolutely not true
new york is a good example
zero tolerance means zero tolerance
do not excuse your city officials from their responsibilities
otherwise greenville will be little detroit in eastern north carolina

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Ken

08/30/2009 01:16:13 PM

I have to agree with Bill. Our local officials job is to run the town & nothing more. The state justice system is what needs to be overhauled. Penalties for crimes are too light and our prison system should be strictly run places that scare the heck out of people. Instead prisons are holding pens where people play basketball and watch TV.

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Pillowtalk

08/30/2009 01:12:41 PM

PUT THEM AWAY. We need to make it VERY CLEAR to potential gang bangers who want to act tough and intimidate law abiding citizens that they will pay. Especially for those who committ crimes with FIREARMS, minimum jail time of up to 10 years should ensue if you engage in ANY irresponsible use of firearms downtown OR engage in attacking and assaulting people.

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terry

08/30/2009 01:05:34 PM

terry is correct
The inventory of major crimes in the last two weeks- 1)armed robbery at Arbys on Greenville Blvd 2) armed robbery at subway- greenville and 10th 3) armed robbery at jolly pawn by airport 4) armed robbery at 14th street 5) murder on Raleigh Road
do you see downtown in the descriptions?
I do not
Quit saying it is not the fault of the police chief and management and the council
it is their fault- not enough resources for the problem

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terry

08/30/2009 12:44:32 PM

the heck the public wasn't there.I was there were you. I am not in west greenville and I am not a bar owner but a greenville blvd businessperson.
The police the chief and the council ARE responsible. That is why they get paid and that is WHY they are elected. You do not get a plumber and do the work yourself!
GET A LIFE, IT IS THEIR JOB!!!

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step up

08/30/2009 12:20:24 PM

The same people that complain about crime are unwilling to work to make things better. These are the same people blaming the police or the chief or the council, and the same people that involve racism into the discussion. I am not saying that citizens should be the police force; however, we should be willing to work with the police, look out for our neighbors, and offer solutions.

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Why

08/30/2009 12:08:56 PM

Why should I have to spend my time and tax money to pick up a crime ridden area? The crime and criminals are now becoming the responsibility of the citizens. Why does it work that way?

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Citizens participation

08/30/2009 11:05:30 AM

The "citizens I saw on TV participating in the public meetings were the same group of "West Greenville Community Organizers"that have been around for years with their own personal agenda. The rest of the participants were bar owners. The general public did not participate!

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to step up from terry

08/30/2009 10:38:05 AM

please review the last few days paper where a woman was killed, yes killed, for trying to protect her neighborhood on raleigh road.I am a little sick of this goody, goody comment that the citizens have to step up especially when she did and she is DEAD- The police have weapons and citizens do not- so do not give this lame comment- wake up- get police on the streets NOW!!!

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step up

08/30/2009 10:03:30 AM

We as citizens need to step up as well. Crime decreased in our neighborhood as well. We interact with the police more and look out for each other.

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terry

08/30/2009 09:43:21 AM

We need to keep the pressure on crime.
More police officers disbursed though-out the city, funded through less desk jobs.
Greenville can get 2 police officers for each planning position eliminated
lets put our tax money where it is needed on the streets not in some paper pushing desk job concerned with "planning".
BUT, then again that takes "Management"...

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ECU Student

08/30/2009 09:17:27 AM

It seems our City is doing something about crime. Over the past week, several cops have visited our apartment complex and talked to the residents here, something that was not done in year. They were very friendly and I have been living here for three years, and this has not happened before. I think this interaction is a positive step. Also, overall crime has decreased in our area over the past year or two.

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Bill

08/30/2009 09:10:04 AM

Face the sad facts folks. Our city government can not do a thing about the crime in our area.

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Right Wing

08/30/2009 09:00:51 AM

I saw on the Raleigh station that Greenville is now 13th municipality in this state for most crime but violent crimes have went down here. Greenville needs redevelopment to push out the crime.

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